Episode 7: Safety in Educational Spaces
The way educational spaces are conceptualized and the way they operate is with the image of an authority figure ‘passing down information/expertise’ to a set of clueless, naive students. As long as there is a rigid hierarchy of one who learns and one who teaches, there is limited scope to qualify an institution as a safe space. Manasvi, Sanskriti and Srishti aim to delve into the ideas of what educational spaces are, how they create a knowledge dissemination mechanism and why it often looks monolithic and what safety means and entails.
About the hosts
Srishti Ghulani is pursuing her MSc in Social and Cultural Psychology from London School of Economics and Political Science. She likes to research and write in arenas of classroom power dynamics and democratic education.
Manasvi graduated with a BA in Psychology in 2020, but most of her college days were spent working on the youth collective they founded called ‘Nathi Nonsense’. The aim of Nathi Nonsense is to use tools like art and media to design interventions for social transformation in young people and society. Manasvi currently co-leads two youth fellowships in the old city of Ahmedabad – Citytantra, a feminist grassroots fellowship aims at strengthening local governance for women through youth-led community media, and Shaharnama, a community arts and media project enabling artists to intervene and build fraternity in their community.
Sanskriti Bhatia is a recent Psychology and Sociology graduate. New projects have always stirred her creative side and she strives to take them up with zeal. She has always had a simple goal in her mind – to make a difference. She has a small initiative called ‘United We Fight’, which she co-founded with her best friend. Their idea is to create a holistic platform where NGOs can raise funds to battle numerous causes. Apart from this, she loves creating art, reading books, baking, and cooking.
Content warning: COVID 19, Punishment, Death, Victim Blaming, Sexual violence, Bullying
Transcript
Manasvi
Hello and welcome to “Explorations on Feminist Leadership by #OneFutureFellows2022”, a podcast by the 2022 cohort of the One Future Fellows, where we discuss, examine, and learn about feminist leadership. I am Manasvi and my pronouns are she/her.
Srishti
I’m Srishti, and my pronouns are she/her as well.
Sanskriti
I’m Sanskriti and my pronouns are she/her.
Manasvi
So today the three of us are talking about safety in educational spaces. We aim to unpack the terminologies of feminist leadership in educational institutes. What does it mean to be safe? What does a safe space look like? What positionalities do we as students and teachers hold? And can educational institutes ever become safe? And finally, do we see educational spaces as the monoliths we currently experience them as the status quo? There’s a lot to unpack here. And Srishti, I think I’ll invite you to maybe talk more on why we chose this topic.
Srishti
So the reason why we chose this topic is because all three of us are like everyone else, have been a part of educational institutions, right. And we’ve experienced the sudden and also like gradual change in terms of how they were earlier when we were young and how like we currently see them working as, how do we see like administrative issues coming up in educational institutions, how diversity is addressed in educational institutions or the lack of it.
Srishti
And all of these concerns were something that we, all three of us, were discussing when we were deciding on a topic for the podcast as well. Which is why, like, we think that this becomes like a very relevant topic in terms of how children or how students become like a part of community. How do they imagine a community? Where do they see themselves being safe? Can they ever imagine themselves being safe in any institution? But I think we’ll just start with, like, on that note, I think I’ll just ask Sanskriti, maybe, like, what do you think an educational institution can look like? What does it mean to be a part of an educational institution? Can we only look at it as like a four world classroom or do we also have like re-imaginations of what a classroom or educational institution might look like?
Sanskriti
Thanks for that question Srishti. I think it’s a really interesting question that we need to unpack. For me, and I think for everybody, the first thing that comes to our mind when we think of an educational space might be a classroom. The way we conceptualize educational spaces and the way they’re taught to us is with the image of an authority figure passing down information to a set of clueless, nice students. Consequently, the students that emerge from a system like this, which is what we imagine traditionally, are engineered to know only as much as as what passed to them, not so much as critical thinking or questioning and being curious.
Sanskriti
When I think of an educational space now, especially post COVID, I think of it beyond a classroom. I imagine my laptop and being in various courses and classes, like the fellowship that I’m a part of as One Future Collective, and being a part of this fellowship, I think I’ve learned the ideas, the importance of curiosity and asking questions and giving each other the space to ask those questions.
Srishti
I just had a like a just a follow up. I think a lot of us might learn the value of like curiosity. We might learn like inquisitiveness from educational institutions. But like, for example, coming from a personal perspective. Like for me school was just the most boxed up version of education that I can never imagine so. Especially because the structure of a school is such and this is just one example of what an educational institution is. But the structure of a school is such that you have to give boards. You constantly have to have like one-sided vision for what it means.
Srishti
But what do you think? Like, where do you think this sort of, and when I went to college, for example, everything just felt so uncomfortable because I wasn’t used to not having a structure, right? You like professors just do whatever they want. They ask you to do whatever you want to do. So do you think there comes some sort of, like, discomfort when you enter like, an institution or when you transition from institutions like that?
Sanskriti
I think yeah, I agree to that. Even when I entered college, there was a lot of discomfort in not having a structure and having to do things by yourself, having to read upon resources, researching by yourself. It’s a lot, and I think discomfort is a part of learning, and it does foster learning. And discomfort is not necessarily the feeling of not being safe is, I don’t think it can be equated with discomfort.
Manasvi
No, I think I would agree to that, Sanskriti. I mean, when I was also imagining what an educational space means to me, sure there were classrooms, but there has been different educational spaces where I found growth and discomfort has been a part of it. And a lot of times, those means, sure, fellowships or workshops were still more structured, but even, I mean the idea of a community learning together or as friends, asking each other the right questions and having conversations. I think that those are all educational spaces and those also be defined as something we are growing and I think the beauty of those are that we innately feel safe because those are with our friends. That is our comfort zone. So how can we sort of how can we use those values into a structure of educational spaces is a question that I’m also thinking about.
Srishti
Yeah, I think if both of you agree that discomfort doesn’t necessarily have to be unsafe, I think honestly, then Manasvi, my question like this is for you as well, like, what do you think is a safe space? Like what do you think, if there is a distinction between discomfort and unsafety, how do you draw that distinction and what does it mean to have like a safe space? How do you create a safe space?
Manasvi
So think innately, everyone of us knows what’s the difference between a safe space where there is discomfort and an uncomfortable space where we’re not feeling safe. And other times it’s difficult to articulate that. But innately we have a gut field that says that, OK, wait, this is this is not safe. And I think I would define for me a safe space as a space which is very interested in my personal growth and very interested in investing that sort of love and empathy into my learning.
Manasvi
Because that space and people who are holding that space really believe that if we nurture an individual, that individual can do great things not just for themselves, but the society and community that they’re part of. And I think those safe spaces mean different for everyone. And I also believe that creating safe spaces not just the responsibility of a teacher for say when I say teacher, we usually look at them as somebody hierarchical. You come to those questions also but its just not the responsibility of them but is of everyone present. Make it a safe space for learner, for the teacher, for anybody present. And I think that we all need to invest in each other.
Manasvi
We all need to practice that sort of empathy to ensure and I also believe that when there is safe space, that is when identity creation happens. Because we are growing there, because we are having, because there’s a space to make mistakes, to explore, to, to do trial and error to see what works for you. And I think when we do that, there is growth. But do you guys have any more thoughts on this? Maybe what is a safe space for you, both of you? Sanskriti, maybe you can start.
Sanskriti
Yeah, I’m going off from you. I think the ideas of love and empathy really stood out for me when you mentioned it. Like, yes. So even within college, there are some classrooms, I think, that are guided by those principles and some that are not. And it’s completely not the responsibility of the teacher, it’s also the students. So if the students are really engaged in creating it as a safe space and giving each other the space to ask questions and even to make mistakes, I think if you have the safety that you can make mistakes in a classroom which is created by not just the teacher but also the students, it creates a really safe space. Because if I’m always worried that I need to, you know, answer correctly, I don’t think I would really talk about my reflections as openly as I would in a safe space.
Srishti
I think similarly similar to what you both of you said, I think when we look at what is the purpose of an educational institution? Sure, it’s to, like, impart knowledge. Sure it’s to give boards, I guess. Of course it’s like all, like all of that technical knowledge. But at its core and like fundamentally, it’s also to create, like, why are like fifty students in a classroom together, right? It’s not to have, like, a monotonous syllabus being taught to them by one authority figure, right? It’s also to create a conversation among those fifty students, which means that the core of, like, an educational institution fundamentally has to be some sort of, like, community creation, right?
Srishti
It’s to bring all of these people coming from different backgrounds understand their backgrounds way better than they would if they’re just more isolated, right. So I think when we talk about safety that like at least that’s what I experienced, not in my school but a transition I experienced in my like university is that when you have so many people and if you have like the capability of creating a space where people are like Sanskriti mentioned, like not afraid to speak up, not afraid to like sound stupid at any point in time. If all of that is created, then of course that’s a safe space at least in like the surface level understanding of it. Like we can’t discount that like the structural barriers that a lot of students might face regardless or like. But I feel like like that cognizance is also like a way to like a step forward towards creating that space, right? You recognize that these are the flaws that we currently have and you can like further work onto them, I guess
Manasvi
I think I’d really connect with it. And I think this brings me to my next question. We spoke a lot about the authority figure and sense of community building. I think that is a power dynamic that always exists in education spaces because there’s usually only one authority who’s responsible for imparting knowledge. What do you feel about Srishti? Do you feel that that sort of our dynamics makes it difficult to be a safe space? What should be the ideal scenario here?
Srishti
I feel like the the way I trace it back, I feel like educational institutions, and I don’t just mean a classroom, but like even like your parents also become like your teachers at some point in time, right? They’re the people who introduce you to the world, the norms of the world. And like informal teaching, like the way we call it, like all of that is introduced to us by our parents, right? I feel like then educational institutions become like some sort of like, they become the foundation of how we understand and perceive hierarchy, right? Because we see like our parents as more knowledgeable than us. Like our parents tell us, oh, we know what is best for you, which is why we want you to do this, which is why we want you to do this. When we go to a school, our teacher tells us we have this qualification, we know more than you, we’ve taught more students like than you ever have studied, right?
Srishti
So like, there’s always like a reinforcement of that hierarchy at all points in time. I think then, like the question that arises in my head is that whenever, assuming like a hierarchy is there at all points in time, like it’s there when you’re born, your parents are hierarchical in nature and like your teacher is as well, is any hierarchy ever a safe space, right? Which means that when we look at educational institutions, do we ever imagine them as spaces that can ever become space right, safe right? Because I think what like in psychology we call this aise like a reward and punishment mechanism. As long as, like you find ways to like “discipline” people into a system and not accommodate the system according to the needs of the people, do you really understand like what safety even means? And I think to understand like more about this because all three of us, some like have like the same understanding at this point in time. Great. I think now that will, like all three of us have narrowed down the understanding of an institution. Education institution is not something that’s like restricted to like an actual, like a school or a college.
Srishti
I think we now see educational institutions as also like a relationship between, like, for example, a professor and a student or like a parent and a child or even like peer-to-peer learning, right. Because we’ve also talked about how it can become a community in and of itself. But I also think like all three of us have sort of just talked about, even while we were discussing what we have to talk about, We’ve just spent so much time together that all three of us have the same line, same direction to what we’re talking about, same thoughts, even same experiences, because we’re from similar backgrounds. Which is why we thought that we’ll have another section where we invite some of the people that we know. We’ll understand their experiences as well, because we do understand that educational institutions can’t just be like a monolithic understanding of like three people together, right? And of course like more people the better, right?
Srishti
Which is why the next section is now going to focus on the three people that we talked to, to understand their understanding of and their experience with, like being safe, feeling safe or unsafe, and educational institutions interacting with more people as well, right. So without further ado, let’s listen to what other people have to say about this.
Sanskriti
OK, so I’ll just begin with asking the questions. OK, in two words, how would you identify yourself and are you a cat or a dog? OK, two words is a little hard, but the first one would be a dead tree. You know, those aesthetic wale ped that are, like huge and pretty. But you also know they’re dead. Yeah, that’s me.
Interviewee 1
And the other would be a rail track, an Indian rail track. It just keeps going on and on. It’s dirty, it’s clean. It’s taking you to places.
Sanskriti
And are you a cat or a dog person?
Interviewee 1
OK, I think I’m a dog person although I’ve never really had pets, but I really like dogs in general. I don’t have an issue with them, but I think with cats, I’m a little afraid, afraid. And you know that thing about cats, how people say that, you know, people are not really, people do not generally like cats because they know their personal space and their limits. So yeah, I think it’s that I want someone to like, let me love them whenever I want. So yeah, I think I’m a dog person.
Sanskriti
Yeah, I agree. Same, even I’m a dog person, I’m a little scared of cats usually.
Interviewee 1
Yeah (laughs)
Sanskriti
So since this podcast is about safety and educational spaces, I just want to know about which institution you studied in or are currently studying in and what is your idea of an educational space?
Interviewee 1
So I’m currently doing my undergrad from Jesus and Mary College, Delhi University, and what according to me is safe educational space, right?
Sanskriti
Yeah.
Interviewee 1
- That’s something to think about because I think when you think about safety and and education under one umbrella, it simply comes down to the freedom of choice, freedom of words and freedom to be able to get education in whatever field or area that you want, right? And that is not something that we’re always offered.
Sanskriti
Yeah.
Interviewee 1
Right from the beginning. It’s your cutoff marks. It’s the stream that you took. It’s the marks that you got. It’s the course that are available to you. It’s the seats that are available to you and whether or not you’re from a particular background, right.
Sanskriti
Yeah.
Interviewee 1
So I don’t think my college offers that kind of safety in any education. There are very limited courses. While I think most of my peers that I talk to on a daily basis and I engaged in, they tell me about, you know, their peers were studying so many different courses, so many different subjects. And yeah, so I think a simple answer would be, no, my college does not offer that kind of safety. And yeah, I think that’s pretty much it.
Sanskriti
From what I’m gathering your experience then, would you describe your experience as unsafe or safe in your own space?
Interviewee 1
If it has to be black and white, I think it would be unsafe.
Sanskriti
OK.
Interviewee 1
Unsafe education. But if there’s a chance of getting a gray area here, then it would be that. Because, yes, my college is comparatively much more better than other colleges. We have a variety of courses to choose from and a variety of professors and students who have come from all different parts of the country and walks of life. So yeah, there is some sort of freedom, some sort of safety, but I think we can do a lot more than just that.
Sanskriti
And you yourself feel safe, like every day when you go to college, do you feel safe?
Interviewee 1
I do not. I mean, it’s a very good thing that you asked knowing the answer already in your head. But like, yeah, I do not feel safe even though I live in I think one of the very safest parts of Delhi and my college is in one of the very poshest areas of Delhi. I don’t think that, you know, I have ever gotten up and started walking out without thinking of possible worst case scenarios. Like, right, like, you know, mera phone charge hona chahiye, do I have something to, you know, protect myself from, even if it is like just a bunch of keys? Do I have a pepper spray? I do not. Am I wearing something right? Am I wearing something that will attract a predator?
Sanskriti
Yeah.
Interviewee 1
So yeah, I do not feel safe.
Sanskriti
Got it. So is that inside your educational space or outside or both? when you say that you…
Interviewee 1
I think it’s mostly outside my educational space, whereas inside my educational space it’s an all girls college. So yeah it is pretty good at creating a safe space for women and people who are studying there. So yeah it’s safe. My college is safe. But the journey to and to and fro in from is not.
Sanskriti
Got it, and you know, since we’re talking about safety, creating the safe space, what practices do you think we can adopt to make it safe? Like we as students, or even from the perspective of authorities, teachers, what can we do to make it safer?
Interviewee 1
I think that’s a highly debated topic, something that’s almost exhausted now. You just can’t talk about it anymore because you’ve spoken too much without anything happening, right? But then at the same time, I think we can all start from the root, first of all, to not be judgmental when you see someone, a person. It’s not, I’m not even talking about seeing a girl, right? It’s just seeing a person. It’s like, mind your own business man.
Sanskriti
Yeah.
Interviewee 1
And if you see something bad happening, if you see someone getting uncomfortable, if there’s even if there’s like nothing that you can offer, just like, you know, be there to make them feel that you know it’s OK, if something happens to you, I’m here. So yeah, I think starting with that, not being judgmental and raising your voice when you see something.
Sanskriti
Yeah. These are really good points and thank you so much for coming here.
Interviewee 1
Thank you so much for having me here.
Manasvi
So OK, I’ll jump into the first question only. So what are the two things that you identify with?
Interviewee 2
OK, one would be a bag that I have which in which I carry like everything that I can need from like eye drops to a tape or some you know children anything that I would need at any it’s a it’s a purse that I have bag that I have that I always carry and it has now become a part of my identity and the other second thing would I think my kurtas, my clothes they are also synonymous with who I am
Manasvi
Great and at One Future Fellowship all the fellows are just crazy pet people. So as a ritual here, I have to ask you that what are you? Who do you identify with more, a cat or a dog?
Interviewee 2
I can’t. I can’t. I am, I am, I’m basically a pet sitter. You have any animal and I can pet and I can sit them for the rest of my life.
Manasvi
Wonderful. Great. OK. So coming into more serious questions. So tell me, where did you study? What do you think a safe educational space looks like? And what was your experience like with safety in those spaces?
Interviewee 2
So in an educational setting, I have studied in two schools, I’ve changed two schools, I’ve studied in one university and I have done a lot of small classes here and there, no dance classes, vocational activities, co-curricular activities, all of those things. So all of these spaces I consider, as you know, educational spaces that I’ve been part of here in Ahmedabad where I live. A safe education space, something that I imagine would be like “Taare Zameen Par” where Ram, Professor Ram is, you know, teaching students and taking each and every case individually rather than seeing them as a group. And you know, being really involved would be would be an ideal space like I would be, I would love to be a student.
Interviewee 2
My educational spaces have been, have been both safe and unsafe at times. I was definitely bullied in the second school I attended. But then when I joined college, it was exactly the opposite. Everyone was welcoming, everyone came from a diverse background and everyone was, you know, nice to each other and it was the wonderful space. School was very difficult. In my dance classes, I’ve seen the teacher being irritated when someone does not pick up things very fast as per two other students like they are disappointed in the people who are…they show disappointment and they project it on the students when they don’t learn it at the speed everyone else does, which is which kind of seems very unfair. So I think safety is to do with not just your classmates, batchmates, your colleagues, but also you know how the teacher treats you and how how they take you on the journey of learning
Manasvi
Interesting. So I think that naturally comes to my next question which is we believe we often talk about this, that safety sure is a huge responsibility of the teacher to ensure, but also it’s everyone in the space. So what do you think are some practices that we as individuals can adopt, either if we are a learner or a teacher in whatever spaces. What do you think are some practices we can adopt to ensure that it’s a safe space?
Interviewee 2
So again, I would emphasize on like it’s the perfect example of how a good learning environment would be, which is “Taare Zameen Par” and Amir’s classroom that is the ideal place of learning and it’s not just learning art or whatever subject that they are teaching you but real life skills are are the real base that you can maneuver through life. One way to do this should be treating young people not as, you know, stupid, but treating young people as people who are there for dousing their curiosity.
Interviewee 2
Young people who are there to learn. Young people who are dependent on a teacher to gain the perspective that they need to go through life, learn how to be curious, learn critical thinking, learn not to be afraid of asking questions and being different and also no surrounding, well, friends are supporting each other. They are providing solidarity rather than competition would be, I think, a safe space, not in the aspect of only learning, but also, you know, other fun times in college and school where you, you know, hang around with them and they provide you a genuine companionship rather than just, you know, something else.
Manasvi
Thank you. Thank you so much for such honest answers.
Interviewee 2
No problem.
Manasvi
Yeah. Bye.
Interviewee 2
Bye.
Srishti
Well, I think we’ll just begin with some introductory lines about yourself. So maybe you could just tell us in two words how you would, how you identify or what you identify yourself as and whether you’re a cat or a dog person. Because we truly believe that’s or whether you’re like neither, because that really tells us things about people.
Interviewee 3
Yes, there are two words in which I can describe myself. One of them is as a student because I think I only like to sit in a classroom, and the other is a friend because I like to sit in a classroom with my friends. So to the next question. I am as cat a person as a cat person can be. So yes, I’m a cat person and whatever that says about my personality,
Srishti
Interesting, very interesting. Yeah, we’ll just move on to like a few specific questions as well. But maybe you could start with where have you studied or where are you currently studying. Our, the topic of like this podcast is also like centering around what safety means in educational spaces. So maybe you could also describe, like your experience of perhaps what you perceive safety to be as in a classroom or an educational institution, and whether you’ve had any experiences of like safety or unsafety in these cases.
Interviewee 3
OK, so I studied in a convent school and then I studied in Delhi University. I studied Psychology at Lady Shri Ram College, and right now I’m pursuing my Master’s in Sociology. I think in terms of like, what is a safe classroom or a safe education institution. The word I would use for that is actually stable or something that’s not static. So probably stable or evolving because that’s the distinction that I make in something being safe and unsafe. Because I truly believe that being like anything, being safe, be it a classroom or a person or a situation is about the process of how you create security and flexibility in that situation. And that’s also how I look at an educational institution, talking about perhaps what’s the popular understanding of safety. I think one is that it doesn’t have to look at safety as an end goal, but as a process, which means that you always have to doubt whether the space is safe enough or whether it’s safe enough for everyone. Whether like that safety is something that you redefine at different points in time. So it’s a process because at all points there will be more categories of people, if you would want to call it that way. There will be more opinions, there will be, there will be contradictions to norms that existed before.
Interviewee 3
Do you have that flexibility to incorporate normative changes and changes for people’s needs, is what makes like an education institute safe for me? I think the second thing that makes it safe is that the, I mean we all know that all education, like all institutions are going to have some form of hierarchy, some form of structure. But what separates like an education institution, or probably makes it better, is that the kind of authority and hierarchy you see there has to be diverse. Like it has to be different from what you’ve seen in your house. Because as a first place you come to post your house and it can’t replicate the hierarchy that you have at your home. Which is why even though there will be a replication of community structure and stratas, it has to be in a way where at least this much you understand that community stratas can change. So if it can change from your house to your school, it can change across the world as well.
Interviewee 3
So the kind of hierarchy you see is something that has to be, I would say more egalitarian, but also in terms of like the the kind of authority that you say has to be different from what a parental authority has to be and that’s what makes it a community, that’s what makes it more democratic because that’s how you move towards it. The third thing would be that a safe space has to have space for disruption and anger and mistakes and hurt because without them you don’t really, you don’t really incorporate the possibility of dealing with insecure things. So yeah.
Srishti
Just a follow up on that as well. If you think that anger and like some sort of audacity and the space to exercise that audacity and express it is what makes a space or like an educational institution safe, do you think do you think like that’s ever possible in an institution? And if it is, what practices do you think can be accommodated within a system to allow for them?
Interviewee 3
So yeah, like I said, I don’t think that safety is an end product or a tangible thing or like a model of how educational institutes can work. I think it’s only a process, so it’s never ending. So I don’t think you can ever look at an institution be like now it’s safe enough. I think the question in itself is something and that becomes the one of the practices that you do, that you never stop asking that question. And that’s a question that’s constantly being answered by different people. It’s being answered by people that you are trying to make it safe for. For example, maybe in, like a lot of years ago, we were talking about education institutes being more safe for women. Right now, woman is probably not going to be the only social category that you talk about. Right now you’re redefining what womanhood in itself means. So who are these women that you’re talking about? What are the different, like stratas within women as a community and as a society that you’re talking about? And now who do you go to to redefine safety again? So that becomes one of the practices.
Interviewee 3
The other is that, like I I mean, of course there can be very tangible and negotiative practices to deal with things like anger and mistakes. But what I’m saying is not anger management. What I’m saying is finding utility in that anger in, say, any stakeholder, right? It could be teachers, it could be students, it could also be people in in higher, in higher like positions, right? Because I think anger says a lot about how that system is working because anger kind of tells you what is failing in that system. And most of all it has to be people not feeling safe or people not feeling secure. So you create a mechanism where anger firstly is devoid of its negative connotation and mistakes are devoid of the negative connotation. But you look at disruption and you look at having to rebuild things. You look at having like, like after a devastating incidence, You look at it and you take from it the things that it tells you about the social fabric of that institution.
Sanskriti
To our listeners, thank you for joining us and listening in today. We’ll end the podcast by questioning the integral practice of hierarchy. Who is a learner? Who is a teacher? Whose responsibility is it to ensure safety? Could feminist leadership be the answer? Values like respectful feedback, accountable collaboration, love, and empathy are at the center of feminist leadership. And I personally believe, and I think all of us would agree, that these ideas and others could definitely help us move towards, if not completely achieve, safety and educational spaces.
Manasvi
We really appreciate your support. If you liked this episode, please follow us on Instagram and Facebook @OneFutureCollective and at onefuture_india on Twitter.
Sanskriti
And keep an eye out for future episodes of “Explorations on Feminist Leadership by #OneFutureFellows2022”. Please leave your questions, comments or feedback for us on Anchor or in our Dms. We look forward to hearing your thoughts. Until next time, take care of yourself and we hope that we can explore more together.
Srishti
Bye, bye.
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