Tags: intergenerational trauma, healing, trauma, mental health, epigenetics
“When you’re also together as a group, one can learn to disrupt these, you know, repeated trauma response patterns by creating that community of healing, creating that community of togetherness where each one can support one another.”- Pragya Lodha on the role of fostering communities to heal from intergenerational trauma, in this episode of the podcast.
At One Future Collective, we advocate for a fairer, more just world by catalysing people power and building communities of care. This often means addressing intergenerational trauma, and finding ways to heal from it together, with each other’s support. Radical kindness lies at the heart of this approach, and in this episode of the podcast, co-hosts Vandita Morarka and Sanchi Mehra are joined by Pragya Lodha, Programme Director, Mental Health, One Future Collective and a Clinical Psychologist working in different capacities with over 8 national and international organisations,
as they discuss how our bodies hold trauma, how our identities affect our mental health, and how we can heal ourselves and help each other heal.
Content Warning: This episode has conversations around trauma and healing that could be emotionally heavy.
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Love to read or want to revisit your favourite bits? Dive into the full transcript below!
Vandita
Hi everyone, welcome back to the Nurturing Radical Kindness Podcast. It’s a space where we explore radical kindness as a pathway to achieving social justice. My name is Vandita and my pronouns are she and her.
Sanchi
And I’m Sanchi, and my pronouns are she/her. Thank you for tuning in to another episode with us, and thanks also for all the feedback and for sharing your reflections with us through these past episodes. We have loved hearing what you have to say about each episode and also look forward to your continued engagement over the upcoming ones.
Vandita
Thank you, Sanchi. We really have and we love that the response has been so warm. We’re truly so happy to see all your comments and your suggestions, and I’m also like really excited about today’s episode. I think it’s very important. It’s something that I believe there is more awareness and consciousness about. Today, we’re going to be talking about intergenerational trauma and I believe that this is something that we need more conversations in every household. So, we encourage you to start a conversation on this after listening in to us.
Sanchi
Right. Thanks, Vandita. And like you said, it’s important to talk about intergenerational trauma, right? So, before I move on to ask you, what exactly is intergenerational trauma? I think I’ll pick up from what you said and ask you- why do you think it’s important in the first place to talk about it.
Vandita
Thank you for that question, Sanchi. I think it’s so important to talk about it because most of us are facing some sort of intergenerational trauma. A lot of us have ancestors who lived through extremely difficult periods of time. A lot of us come from identities that have historical connotations of oppression, right? So our grandparents, their grandparents, have suffered oppression, have been prejudiced against, have faced violence, and that over time is passed down across generations. So you know, another word for intergenerational trauma is also transgenerational trauma and it talks about trauma that, while not experienced by me, is something that has been passed on to me by generations that came before me. So, I think it was in 1966 that a Canadian psychiatrist, Vivian Rakoff noticed that there was a very high level of psychological distress among children of Holocaust survivors and I think that’s where, like the first intergenerational trauma incident was recognized- that trauma had carried on in the children of survivors, although these children had never really faced this sort of trauma. So, any type of extreme, prolonged exposure to stress can lead to psychological impacts later on in different generations. In fact, there’s also evidence to say that this trauma can alter genes when passed down from one generation to another, and it can also predispose individuals to be sensitive to certain types of traumas and stresses. And while anyone can suffer from it, definitely historically there is data to show that there are certain communities that are more susceptible to this just because of the subjugation and exploitation they have faced from oppressive groups. In fact, I’d love to hear from you about how does intergenerational trauma manifest? Like we do understand what it is, but how do we recognize it within us or in people around us?
Sanchi
Thanks for that Vandita and thanks for telling us, like setting a base on what intergenerational trauma can look like. And like you said it was first seen in the children of Holocaust survivors. And I think some of the common symptoms of intergenerational trauma can manifest themselves into mood issues or anxiety issues in the next generation and this was also seen because the shared loss that the next generation is born with. So, because of that, like you mentioned, a lot of psychological distress then transforms itself into say maybe hypervigilance or high anxiety, high chances of depression or for panic attacks or extreme sensitivity to flight or fight responses, but of course, it’s not limited to this and these symptoms might look very different for different people, and we will come back to this shortly. But before that Vandita, since you did mention about this, I’d like to know more about why are some populations more affected by intergenerational trauma or how does it really affect our identities?
Vandita
Thanks for sharing, Sanchi. I think it’s very important to recognize how trauma manifests and then alongside that to understand that intergenerational trauma is about trauma, right? And trauma essentially is faced more by people that are oppressed. It’s faced more by groups that are consistently subjugated, that consistently face some sort of oppression in the hands of other groups. And I think like say, for example, women, queer people, persons from oppressed caste, they have over centuries faced so much more trauma, so much more violence, that it is just obvious that intergenerational trauma for them would be more because often also for a lot of these generations, violence does not stop. It’s not something that stops that one generation. For a lot of oppressed groups, violence continues generation after generation. So, it’s getting compounded and people are always just stuck in the cycle of coping. They’re not really healing. They’re not necessarily getting that space and so many of these communities don’t even have autonomy over their trauma. Like, I’ll speak as a woman. As a woman, I don’t feel that I always have control over how I deal with my trauma, how I recognize my trauma, how I want to process it, or even just something as small as, you know, considering my trauma ‘trauma’. I feel like for that as well, I would need so much more societal validation, and it would be so much more difficult for me to get it than for other proofs and it’s normalised a lot. Like for women, for a lot of other people, it’s normalised as this is what your life is. So, why are you thinking of it as trauma? Or why are you thinking of it as something that is intergenerationally being passed down? Because this is just your life. This is just your role in life and this normalisation as a rite of passage or just something that is passed off as a gender role generation after generation compounds this trauma quite significantly.
Sanchi
Right. Thanks, Vandita, and I think what you mentioned about it being normalised so much for us as women, I think that’s a very important point to raise. And I think I have never really been able to call it what it is. Growing up in Punjab, I think I have seen a lot of families that went through very traumatic phases during the partition. Now I think with this episode I’m starting to learn how the trauma that they have faced might be passed on to their next generations. So really, thanks for that.
Vandita
Thank you so much for sharing that, Sanchi. I know that for certain groups, because of the history and the public nature of their trauma as well as often processing, it can become so different or also so normalized. In fact, it reminds me of this poem called Shrinking Women by Lily Myers and I just wanna read out a few excerpts from it. It goes like this.
And I wonder if my lineage is one of women shrinking,  making space for the entrance of men into their lives,not knowing how to fill it back up once they leave.That’s why women in my family have been shrinking for decades.We all learnt it from each other, the way each generation taught the next how to knit,weaving silence in between the threadswhich I can still feel as I walk through this ever-growing house,skin itching,picking up all the habits my mother has unwittingly dropped like bits of crumpled paperfrom her pocket on her countless trips from bedroom to kitchen to bedroom again,inheritance is accidental. |
Sanchi
Thank you so much, Vandita. Thanks for sharing that poem with us. I think it brings to light what we have been talking about and I think with that, we are ready to welcome the guest for today, right? Pragya is here with us today. Pragya is a mental health professional and also the Program Director for mental health at OFC. Thanks for joining us today for this conversation, Pragya.
Pragya
Hello, Sanchi. Glad to be a part again.
Vandita
Thank you, Pragya. I’m so glad to have you with this.
Pragya
Hi, Vandita.
Vandita
Hi, so we’re gonna jump right into questions. I’m gonna let Sanchi take the lead because we have a bunch of questions for you about intergenerational trauma, how it manifests, and what support for it can look like.
Sanchi
Right. Thanks a lot, Vandita. And yes, with that, Pragya, I know we talked a bit earlier about how trauma can manifest in people and especially intergenerational trauma, but I would love to learn from you as a mental health professional, how does it really show up in people? How do you recognize intergenerational trauma?
Pragya
Intergenerational trauma is something, you know, if we look at that, we all as individuals are probably carrying some form of transgenerational or intergenerational trauma. And this reminds me, you know that Lindsay Brahman actually made a beautiful picture that said that we all are either repeating the cycles of trauma or transgenerational trauma or we are carrying the burden of breaking the cycle of trauma. So usually when we look at intergenerational trauma, unlike the other experiences of trauma that can often be expressed, that can often be very easily vocalised, as you know that I am feeling this way, which could be I’m feeling sad, I’m feeling angry, I’m feeling agitated and there is a plausible reason behind that trauma versus intergenerational trauma becomes quite tricky and challenging because oftentimes we may not be able to really point out at the root cause of this sort of a trauma. So, intergenerational trauma really cannot be pointed out by the individual themselves. However, we’ve had some pioneers like Dr Vivian Rakoff, Yehuda Rachel, Yael Danieli, who’ve done some amazing research and have actually helped us understand what transgenerational trauma can really look like. ‘Transgenerational trauma’ can look from anywhere, you know, between feeling angry, irritable, sad, anxious, upset, frustrated, insecure, feeling lack of emotional involvement with others and right up to experiencing physiological disturbances like sleep disturbances, recurring bad dreams, recurring dreams of traumatic events and it could also lead to us not having stable relationships with people, having emotional distances in our relationships, mood swings and probably even high prevalence of any sort of psychiatric vulnerability. So, intergenerational trauma is something that can be identified maybe through a clinical lens because there is a somewhat awareness amongst professionals, healthcare professionals, clinicians. However, it is an experience that may not very directly be experienced by all individuals, but there is a subset of population that does talk about their experiences of trauma very easily, very vocally to their children or to the forthcoming generations also and that’s where this sort of trauma experience can be sometimes picked up by the children or the second generation within the family or the society. So this is, in general, an idea of how intergenerational trauma can look like. It’s definitely tricky and difficult to be picked up, but sometimes if trauma is talked about, if tales are talked about by parents to their children, then definitely that is the only medium for the next generation to realise that there could have been a trauma. Usually, we do delve into and look into a lot of other transmission mechanisms also, but talking about the trauma and sometimes it’s just called retelling or talking about the trauma. Technically, it’s also sometimes called as ‘empathic traumatization’, where the children or the second generation empathise with the trauma experience of the first generation or the parent. That’s one of the most potent ways of understanding intergenerational trauma, which further even helps understand how it can manifest.
Vandita
That’s extremely insightful, Pragya. Thank you for sharing that with us. In fact, since you bring it up, that recognizing intergenerational trauma can be quite difficult because there isn’t an exact science to it, right? It manifests in so many ways. Then at an individual level, how does one cope with intergenerational trauma? Especially, say if most of us are carrying some burdens of such trauma, how do we cope with it?
Pragya
One of the best ways when it comes to experiencing any sort of stressful experience and then managing it is to first even allow the expression of it. Most often there is a stigma when it comes to you know, talking about difficult things, talking about stressful situations, dealing with trauma. Nobody really wants to do it because I think we are too busy being strong in our lives on a day-to-day basis about so many things, but one of the first and most important things about this is to be able to even allow expression. Post that, of course, a non-Judgemental attitude and empathetic ear to listening to these trauma experiences is also important so that we can let the other person even feel validated. Over here the feeling of validation allows the person expressing trauma to feel belonged, to feel heard, and to even feel that, ‘Yes, you know, whatever I’ve experienced is real’ because a lot of times when we look at intergenerational trauma, it’s a discrete form of trauma which the second-generation experiences without even getting exposed to the event of trauma. So, there can be that feeling of, you know, that’s why is this happening to me? Why do I have to suffer it when I did not even do anything to, you know, sort of be a direct recipient of it? So, it’s important that the healing process begins this way. Another thing that I would add is that taking to therapy of course is one of the most powerful and potent ways of addressing trauma where therapists can deal with, you know, multiple healing exercises, a lot of trauma-focused psychotherapy that can happen, which can help relieve this trauma as well. But if we were to support ourselves and our fellow peers around us, I think developing that bond of empathy, belongingness and just lending out an ear to even express and validate each other’s experiences of trauma, that would be a great beginning to even feel belonged, despite the collective traumatic experience that we all share with one another as a community.
Sanchi
Thanks for taking us through that. Thanks for sharing with us how intergenerational drama might manifest, and how it is that we might be able to cope with it at an individual level. Thanks for that, Pragya, and my follow-up question to you then is that we heard from you about how we might deal with it personally or help others deal with it, right, at an individual level, but what are the steps that you think we can take as collectives, as groups or as families at a community level to ensure that we are initiating a process of healing from an intergenerational trauma?
Pragya
I think again starts with belief. I think the fact that we can even believe that there is an internal chaos and the fact that sometimes, you know, just realising that though it didn’t start with you, it can end with you, is the first step that you can take forward as a group together. When you’re also together as a group, one can learn to disrupt these, you know, repeated trauma response patterns by creating that community of healing, creating that community of togetherness where each one can support one another. Sometimes, it may also mean that you know, we are taking step towards say, maybe, you know, raising voice against the injustice that is done. It could be simply about proposing policy changes. It could be sometimes even intolerance to a level where injustice is being done to the kind of people and usually taking action together gives a far more amount of not just, I think the solace and security, but also the healing effect that people feel when they take steps together as a community. Right from addressing trauma at an individual level to a community level would be to again have a non-judgemental approach to it. Another thing, very important at a community level would be to be, to even allow that process of healing to happen, because I think a lot of times there is not even an acceptance of trauma that has happened and there is a very inadvertent submissive attitude of looking at that yes or no, this is where it is. And a lot of times people may not have exposure to even understand that ‘Ok, what’s happening with me is wrong.’ So, I think over your consciousness, exposure to, you know, learning, constant learning rather is something that can also be very helpful. So taking actions, taking steps towards justice, taking steps together as a community, being there for one another as a community and even allowing to understand that there is an acceptance of trauma and then taking a step towards healing is something that a community can do for the process of community healing together.
Vandita
Thank you for that, Pragya. I think it’s so beautiful and so simple sometimes, but it’s also things that never come to our mind, right? I think the things you shared about just speaking up against injustice, building and fostering like a sense of community amongst others who have faced what we have. I think these things can in themselves lead to transformation and often can be the way for us to, like, break away from these trauma bonds. Just to quickly share an example, I think as a woman, I think all of us grow up with some sort of trauma that has been passed down from our mothers, from our grandmothers, and just the small act of seeing one woman in your family speak up and say ‘This is wrong.’ Or maybe see some injustice against women within your household being addressed by an ally, by a bystander in your household. I think that can shift so much of what we experience and so much of what we might be experiencing and burdening ourselves without even realising that we carry that burden. Just gonna get to the next question from this, that in these situations with individual and community support looking like it does, what does mental health support for this look like in terms of mental health professionals, support systems? Even recognizing this and the predisposition perhaps to other mental health concerns, how do we build better mental health support for intergenerational trauma?
Pragya
I think the existing mental health support that we have for understanding and addressing intergenerational trauma is more around trauma-focused psychotherapy. And in fact, very interestingly, intergenerational trauma treatment models also exist. There are resilience genograms that are there. There is CBT that is focused around this. There is acceptance and commitment therapy that’s focused around understanding intergenerational trauma and of course, not to miss, but the beautiful psychoanalysis and psychodynamic approaches to understanding trauma that already exist. However, the need and the constant need of making mental health a better support system will always and always mean that we are making the understanding of trauma more history-specific, more cultural, culture-specific, which also means that trauma is not just about the experience of trauma, which is situational, but it also has to absorb the context of history and culture. In fact, it’s very, it’s very interesting to note that the DSM, that is the Diagnostic and the Statistical Manual of Mental Disorders, until its third version in 1980, did not even include that trauma could be a diagnosis, because till the 1980s, it was expected and rather assumed that anybody who experienced trauma had to get okay within six months and if they didn’t get okay within six months, they would actually be suffering from some premorbid condition and it was left at that. However, it was only in the 1980s, because of the contribution and the constant efforts of some researchers, that trauma actually became a diagnosis. However, we are in 2021, but the challenge to trauma as a diagnosis still remains so that there is no consideration of secondary traumatization of trauma in our entire treatment model. And if we look at intergenerational trauma, it’s actually nothing but secondary traumatization because there is no primary contact or there is no primary recipients of trauma, but these are actually recipients of trauma who have not been exposed to trauma. So this is the challenge and I think you know the DSM has actually been challenged that- does it really cover trauma in an absolute manner, in a comprehensive manner, which it actually does not. It still only looks at trauma from a primary experience point of view and does not have any sort of inclusion for the aspects and context of history or culture. So, what also comes to mind is something that Yael Danieli actually pointed out in the year 1998, where she said that “Not until 1980 did the term ‘survivor syndrome’ find its way into the Diagnostic and Statistical Manual of Mental Disorders. The recognition of possible intergenerational transmission of victimisation-related pathology still awaits inclusion in future additions.” So, I think this is going to be the way forward for mental health as an entire fraternity to build further additional support to people who have been sufferers of intergenerational trauma. And though I think each and every individual sort of is susceptible to generational trauma, but there are specific populations that are vulnerable due to their histories such as, I mean refugees, war veterans, people who’ve experienced slavery, poverty, dysfunctional families. So, these will be the subsets of populations who will always be more susceptible to trauma, which will inadvertently also call for greater mental health support as well.
Vandita
That’s good, insightful. Thank you for sharing that with us. I think related to this a question that definitely comes to my mind is something that I’ve been reading about a lot is how intergenerational trauma gets passed down and its linkages with epigenetics. I’d love if you could throw some light on that.
Pragya
Well, yes, definitely, definitely. To, I think also acquaint our listeners to that. It was this researcher called Rachel Yehuda, who actually is a pioneer when it comes to understanding the role of epigenetics in intergenerational trauma. So before I even go ahead to answer your question, Vandita, I’d like to maybe explain to our listeners what epigenetics really means. And to a break to our English conversation, I might just switch to Hindi as well. So, understanding epigenetics in Hindi is also gonna be fun.
Epigenetics ek aisa study hai jahaan par jo genetics ke study ke andar aata hai. Aur pichle saant salon se researchers aur scientists iss field mein research kar rahe hai, sashobhan kar rahe hai aur isse jaanne aur samajhne ki koshish kar rahe hai. Aaj tak bhi iss field ko kafi naya hi maana jaata hai kyunki humaare paas 100% conclusive results toh nahi hai. Lekin yeh ek bohot hi promising area of study hai. Epigenetics agar bohot saral bhaasha mein samjha jaaye toh ye hai ki- humaare jo genes hai, voh jo humaare behaviours, humaare emotions, humaare thoughts in sabko influence karte hai humaare genes. Aur basically, genes ko do cheezon mein genetic influence ho ya genetic expression ko do cheezon mein samjha jaata hai- genotype aur phenotype. Phenotype yaane baahari roop se hum jaise dikhte hai aur genotype yaane andhrooni taur par yaane jo humaara physiological make-up hai, jo internal make-up hai voh kaisa hota hai. Lekin epigenetics ek aisa field of study hai jo hume bataata hai ki genes ko environment bhi infulence kar sakta hai aur jo nature aur nurture ka sadiyon se debate chala aa raha hai, epigenetics uss debate ko support karte vakt bolta hai ki jo humaara nature hai, jo humaara environment hai, voh itna powerful hai ki voh humaare genetic expression ko bhi influence kar sakta hai.
(Epigenetics comes under the study of genetics. Researchers and scientists have been working/researching in this field for the past 60 years. Even now, it is still considered a relatively new field because we do not have 100% conclusive results yet. It is still a promising area of study. Our genes influence our behaviours, emotions and thoughts. Genetic expression or influence is broadly understood in 2 ways- genotype and phenotype. Phenotype is our physical characteristics and genotype is our internal/physiological make-up. Epigenetics show that our environment can also influence our genes. Epigenetics supports the nature vs. nurture debate by showing that our nature/environment is powerful enough to influence our genetic expression.)
So to just quickly also wrap it up in one sentence in English, epigenetics is a field of study that talks about the power of influence of the environment on our genetic expression without really changing our genes.
So, jab hum intergenerational trauma ko samajhte hai, jo sadiyon se trauma chala aa raha hai aur jo pass on ho raha hai aage ki generations ko, usme epigenetics ka bhi ek bohot mehetvapoorn role hai. Sabse zyaada interesting cheez ye hai ki aaj tak researchers ne koi bhi direct ya conclusive biological mechanism nahi dhoond paaye hai jisse hume ye pata chale ki intergenerational trauma aise pass on hota hai. Usually, kisi bhi phenomena ya kisi bhi experience ko jaan ne ke liye, biological level par jaan ne ke liye kahi saare access ya kahi saare hormonal pathways ya kahi saare doosre pathways hote hai jisse hume pata chalta hai lekin intergenerational trauma ka abhi to koi bhi pathway hume pata nahi chala hai. Ek school of research aur ek school of researchers aise hai jo hume batate hai ki jo trauma se hume hurt hota hai, jis trauma se hume udaasi mehsoos hoti hai, anxiety mehsoos hoti hai, voh trauma agar ek parent experience karta hai toh uski genes ke through uske bacchon par bhi influence hota hai aur agar bacchon ko achha environment na mile ya bohot enriched environment na mile toh uspar zyaada uska prabhav hota hai. Lekin agar second generation ya phir jo aanevaali peedi hai, unhe agar ek achha environment mile, agar unhe ek paushtik environment bhi mile, you know a nurturing environment that is called in English, agar voh bhi unhe milta hai toh trauma ka jo effect voh kam hota jata hai.
(Epigenetics plays an important role in understanding intergenerational trauma. An interesting thing is that researchers have not been able to find a direct/conclusive biological mechanism to understand how intergenerational trauma is passed on. We study biological/hormonal pathways to understand any phenomenon or experience but we have not found one for intergenerational trauma yet. A school of researchers say that if a parent experience hurt, depression, and anxiety due to trauma, then this influences their genes, which can influence their kids as well. If the child doesn’t get an enriched environment, then the influence of trauma can be seen. If children are given a nurturing environment, the effect of trauma reduces as the generations go on.)
So basically, epigenetics and intergenerational trauma is one of the strongest studies that have been spoken about till now. Studies have been done in mice also, studies have been replicated in humans also, but the thing is that, in humans, we still do not have a very conclusive idea. So, the debate often till now remains is that is this just a behavioural legacy through psychological impacts or is it actually an epigenetic change which is there. However, I would also like to, you know, take a moment to contribute and share with you all that what Doctor Gayani Desilva talks about the influence of epigenetics on intergenerational trauma. She says that trauma affects genetic processes, leading to traumatic reactivity being heightened in populations who experience a great deal of trauma. Trauma also influences the microglia, which is nothing but your brain’s immune system. When in heightened trauma reactive states, the microglia eat away at nerve endings instead of enhancing growth and getting rid of damage. The microglia go haywire in the brain and cause depression, anxiety and can also cause dementia. This can translate into genetic changes which can be passed down to further generations as well. So, this is a small understanding of the power of genetic inheritance that people can receive from their parents. So, till now, if we speak about the influence and the combination of epigenetics or the role of epigenetics in intergenerational trauma, it is still something that is being explored, but it is one of the promising theories that researchers are looking into.
Sanchi
Thank you so much for that Pragya. Apne bohot hi aasani se humaare ko itna complex epigenetics ka jo pura concept hai voh explain kiya (you explained the complex concept of epigenetics very easily). Thanks a lot for that and I think this really goes back to something that you said earlier, right? And I think that was very, very impactful when you had said ki intergenerational trauma didn’t start with you but it might end with you, right? It can end with the generation and I think jab hum epigenetics ki baat karte hai (when we talk about epigenetics) and so beautifully you brought out the nature versus nurture debate and told us ki how ek environment agar hum ek generation ko acha environment de toh kaise hum trauma said deal kar sakte hai (about how we can deal with trauma if we give the next generation a good environment). And I think that also goes back to when we were talking about the acceptance of trauma at a community level and ek cheez jo mere dhyaan me aati hai (one thing that comes to mind) is the Partition Museum that’s only recently been developed in Punjab, in the city of Amritsar, and I think that really tells me ke (that) how a community can really come together to first of all accept that the generations prior to us have dealt with this kind of trauma, and I really see that monument as, you know, a healing space, ke theek hai humaare pichli pidhiyo ke saath aisa hua (that this is what happened to our previous generations) and how is it that we as the future generations can deal with it. So really Pragya, thanks a lot. Aaj mujhe lagta hai ki mujhe epigenetics ke baare mein kaafi kuch seekhne ko mila (I feel that I got to learn quite a bit about epigenetics today), and like I said, bohot hi complex term ko aapne bohot acche se humaare ko samjhaaya (you explained a really complex term very well). So really, thank you so much for that. But I really just want to learn so much more and my question to you now Pragya is ki, what can I, as a friend maybe or as an ally, what can I do to help someone? Jaise agar kisi mere a friend ko mujhe pata hai (If I think about my friend) that they might have, like their generations prior to them might have faced intergenerational trauma and agar mujhe lagta hai ke (if I think that) they might be facing this right now. How can I help them? What can I do to help them?
Pragya
Sanchi, first of all, thank you for the acknowledgement, you know, and I think to go ahead and answer your question, the first thing that we all can do to become better analysed to intergenerational trauma and experiences of trauma in general, is that a) to even allow the person to talk. I think the first thing that we all need to do is to just let the person talk and you know, not just shun them away or not just, you know, shut the conversation down just because it’s about okay, like you know, there’s another thing to talk or vent about. That is the first thing that we need to do is to let people talk. The other thing, like I said, mentioned before as well is to have a non-judgmental approach. It’s okay, trauma, the most important understanding of trauma is that there is no definition that can really tell us what trauma is. Trauma is a subjective experience. It differs from every individual to another. What may be traumatic for me may not be traumatic for you and what may be traumatic to you may not be traumatic to me. So having a non-judgmental approach and being open to just understanding people’s experiences and believing in them is very, very important. Third thing, that we express empathy. Even if you are not able to solve your friend’s problem, even if you are not able to tell your friend what to do, how to feel better, it’s fine. Just let them feel validated that okay, what they’ve experienced is something that’s real and though you may be helpless and you may not be able to help them, yet you are there with them. Even when people are just told that, okay, you know, somebody is there to listen to them or somebody is there to just be there with them, that in itself can become a very huge emotional support. A lot of times, you know, we see that just being heard is something that people look forward to. It’s okay if, you know, they don’t have or they don’t get solutions to their problems, but the fact that people want to be heard is something which is very essential and needs to be, you know, realised and we need to be more cognizant of that. Another thing that you can do is that you can always relay them to professionals who can offer more help if you feel less equipped with it. Another thing that we can do is that we all can and we all must educate ourselves because these are experiences that float around so commonly, you know, not just in today’s time, but these are very common human experiences. We don’t need to necessarily diagnose, you know, a disorder or an illness to be able to even address it.
There can be some very regular day-to-day distresses and simply, you know, us lending an ear to the person who wants to just be heard out or wants to talk can be more than enough and relieving for them. Another thing that we can do as ally is that be a little more sensitive and not come to very quick judgement. Solution offering, suggestion offering is something that should be done with caution because a lot of times, you know, it’s our very instinctual response to tell the other person ‘Oh do this. Why don’t you do that? Have you tried this?’ But it’s important to be a little sensitive while we are talking to somebody who may have experienced trauma because it shouldn’t be triggering for them, it shouldn’t be something that makes them feel more upset. Also, another thing is that please allow the person to express also. You know, we get very uncomfortable if somebody is talking to us and is crying or is getting upset or irritable because suddenly our guard goes up that ‘Oh you know, why is this person feeling like this?’ And we assume this responsibility of making that person okay. It’s fine, let the person express. You never know that could just be an expression or a medium or just a way for that person to just feel better as well. So it’s okay if the person is feeling negative, just sort of be there, let them finish and then offer that, ‘Okay, you know, is there anything that I can do for you?’ So instead of, even like I mentioned, that instead of giving a very direct suggestion or advice, you can always ask that, you know, is there anything that I can do to help you? Very important that we don’t avoid this conversation, that we don’t dismiss this conversation. Don’t be impatient while listening. Don’t look at your clock or watch again, like don’t be in a hurry. A lot of times non-verbally we may feel very disturbed. Also, I think it’s important that if you are the other person at the listening end and if you think that you are getting triggered or you may not be able to have the conversation, be your own advocate, talk about that you know, as much as I want to help you, I feel I’m not in the best situation, but I don’t want to leave you and I would rather, you know like, that, you know, I take you to a professional or I connect you with a professional or you know, somewhere. Don’t just leave the person midway because I think one thing that happens very commonly in today’s time is that though we may all, we all may want to be there for other people to help them or to anchor them from what they are feeling, oftentimes we may not have our own bandwidth. And the better thing is to be more self-aware that you know, is this something that I can sign up for? If you have signed up for it, leaving midway is not the best thing. So, these could be some things that you know, we can do. We can sometimes as friends, as allies, we can just also help the person feel a little more calm and relaxed and happier after they’ve ended. You know, it could just mean that okay, we don’t, let’s go to your favourite place. Let’s watch something that you like. Let’s cook, have, you know, a cup of ice cream or a cup of coffee or, you know, just make them laugh a little or take care of them, be with them. If, you know, say suppose you’re there together and they want to go home and sleep, it’s fine. You know, it could literally mean that you know, that is your way of taking care of them, that, you know, you just drop them home and they want to sleep and you just check on them. Let them know that you are around, you can talk if you have the bandwidth to be able to do so. So, these could be some small things that we can do as allies for people who have experiences of trauma.
Sanchi
Thank you so much for sharing all those things with us, Pragya. I think humne bohot kuch seekha ke (we have learnt a lot), how can we help someone who might have faced trauma in their lives? And more importantly, how can we do this responsibly because that’s a very, very important part of it. And yes, bohot kuch seekhne ko mila (we learnt a lot). Thank you so much. Pragya, thanks a lot for joining us for this conversation today.
Pragya
Thank you for having me, Sanchi and Vandita. It was lovely being here.
Vandita
Thank you, Sanchi. Until next time then, take care of yourselves and stay with us in our journey towards a radically kinder world.
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For more delightful discussions on practicing feminism and fostering communities of care, check out the other episodes of the Nurturing Radical Kindness podcast! Until then, here’s a reflection activity for you to mull over.
| Reflection Activity – Intergenerational Trauma How can a community’s history of trauma shape its present and future? In what ways do societal structures and systems contribute to the transmission of trauma across generations? What role does collective memory play in passing down trauma? How might we begin to heal the impacts of intergenerational trauma in our lives, families, and communities? |
About the Nurturing Radical Kindness Podcast
Radical Kindness is the ethos and practice that forms and informs One Future Collective. It guides our constitution as an organisation and is the core value that guides our work. It is a politics of love, fighting against apathy and hopelessness. Often being ‘hard’, ‘stoic’ or ‘rigid’, is considered crucial for social change, and it is this very notion that radical kindness challenges. It espouses that being kind, compassionate and loving in our activism can still pave the way for dissent, defiance, growth and rebuilding. It is a tool we seek to use to rebuild our systems with care, nurturance and justice at their core. It allows us to hold various stakeholders, including ourselves, accountable in how we interact with ourselves and our communities and to build towards a lived reality of social justice collaboratively.
Hosted by Sanchi Mehra and Vandita Morarka of One Future Collective, this podcast attempts to unpack what it means to be radically kind and how we can practice it through conversations with members of the One Future Collective community.